On Sep 5, 2022, at 3:03 PM, Stephen O. Frazier <hlaanm@...> wrote:

Carol - you're absolutely right.  Since March of 2012 any new or substantially upgraded PA system in a qualifying place of assembly is required under the ADA to have an assistive listening system - and it must be hearing aid compatible.  That means it must be a hearing loop or it must have neckloops for 25% of the FM or IR or WiFi receivers.  There must also be  adequate signage to alert people to its presence.  That being said, it's doubtful that many communities of any size are without some venue or venues that offer telecoil connectivity. 

 

Though churches are not covered by the ADA mandate, they are the largest group of venues using either loops or neckloops for communication access.  The hearing care providers are either poorly informed or disingenuous when they offer lack of loop availability as an excuse for not counseling clients on the technology.  This also does not take into account the mobility of a large segment of the hard of hearing public that travels and has opportunities elsewhere in this country and abroad to connect to a hearing loop.

 

In my 7 years of service on the board that regulates hearing care providers in New Mexico I found that hearing aid dispensers were less supportive of the technology than audiologists but that both were opposed to being told they had to provide telecoils counseling.  After the licensing board twice voted down a counseling requirement I had to take the matter to the state legislature to get such a mandate successfully enacted.  We had support from AARP, various state agencies that deal with the HoH, church leaders, the NAD and others that convinced legislators who had no dog in this fight that they should support the needs of the hard of hearing over the objections from those who supposedly serve their needs.

 

As for loaner ALS receivers, they are likely always offered with earphones but very probably there are neckloops also available if requested.

 

If we, the hard of hearing public, want this technology we need to stand up and speak out - too few hearing care providers are going to do so.

 

 

Stephen O. Frazier, Hearing Loss Support Specialist

 

   

                 

                               Please support the

   GET IN THE HEARING LOOP

                               campaign of the

  Hearing Loss Association of America

 

 

 

            

 

              

 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Carol in Boston" <carolagate34@...>
To: HLAATech@...
Cc: HLAAGITHL@..., HLAA Tech <HLAATech@groups.io>, HLAAGITHL@groups.io
Subject: Re: [HLAATech] [HLAAGITHL] HLAA Not Promoting Telecoil & Hearing Loops #Advocacy #GITHL-Toolkit #hearingloop
Date: Mon, 5 Sep 2022 14:31:20 -0400

Too often audiologists use the chicken and egg argument, that there are too few places that are looped. But what they keep missing is that it’s not necessarily looped rooms that are the reason for telecoils. Public venues are supposed to at least have assistive listening devices. (Whether they are actually available and working is another matter.) ALDs usually come with headphones, sometimes earbuds, and less often neck loops. Headphones generally don’t work well with hearing aids and earbuds not at all. Since many places don’t have neck loops, it’s simple enough to bring your own. I’ve yet to hear of an audiologist who advocates neck loops as a reason to have telecoils.

 

Carol Agate 

On Sep 5, 2022, at 12:12 PM, Stephen O. Frazier <hlaanm@...> wrote:

Hi Ginevra - You're absolutely right in your assessment that hearing care providers are a big roadblock in raising awareness and availability of telecoils and loops.  In my opinion they are the biggest one and I don't see that the situation has improved much over the last 20 years.

 

Here's a quote from a 2002 article in Hearing Review:

 

"Unfortunately, a recent survey showed that less than 50% of all hearing aid dispensers even mentioned the possibility of a telecoil to their clients. Dispensers cannot, of course, require that their clients include a telecoil in their hearing aids, but people can be given enough information so that they can make an informed choice. Many people would be more than willing to accept the need for a slightly larger hearing aid if the potential benefits of a telecoil were explained to them."

 

I believe that, since the advent of Bluetooth the percentage could even be smaller and, in reaction to looping advocacy, some providers go a step further and try to discourage clients from having the technology included in their HAs. 

 

They're often ignored and violated but state regulations mandating telecoil counseling prior to the dispensing of hearing aids help.  Only a handful of states have such regulations - many as a result of HLAA chapter advocacy - and that's what's needed elsewhere to overcome what is sometimes the outright refusal of some providers to provide such counseling. 

 

Members of this and other HLAA lists and their local chapters are the logical leaders of such efforts in any state that does not have such a requirement.  I believe it's way past time for HLAA chapters to step up and take action on this issue as we did here in NM and others have done in IN,UT, RI, DE etc.

 

Stephen O. Frazier, Hearing Loss Support Specialist

 

   

                 

                               Please support the

   GET IN THE HEARING LOOP

                               campaign of the

  Hearing Loss Association of America

 

 

 

            

 

              

 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Ginevra Ralph" <GRalph@...>
To: HLAAGITHL@...
Subject: Re: [HLAAGITHL] HLAA Not Promoting Telecoil & Hearing Loops #Advocacy #GITHL-Toolkit #hearingloop
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:03:28 -0700

 

Clearly one roadblock continues to be hearing specialists – maybe we could picket their conventions…

Seriously though, do you have a relationship with your own provider that you could ask some probing questions such as these:

• ·        Do you tell all your clients about telecoils?
• ·        Do you include telecoil as a default in new devices or does the client have to request it?
• ·        Do they need to request Bluetooth or is it automatic?
• ·        How many looped sites in our area would it take for our local specialists to stop saying “nothing’s looped”?
• ·        When do you activate a telecoil in a new pair of hearing aids and do you teach the client how to use it in a looped exam space? [We have had customers show up with telecoils but they can’t use the program!!]

If everyone in a chapter asked their provider questions like this, it can provide both some local advocacy strategies and collective ones if you share the answers with all of us on your websites. [Do you suppose the answers swould be different in the UK compared to the US!?!]

--
Ginevra Ralph
The Shedd Institute, Eugene OR

Steve, as always you’re right on target. One clarification needed though. Explaining what a telecoil does to a first time hearing aid buyer is like talking to the wind. It has to be demonstrated as well as explained. Once a person experiences it, they know why it can double the value of their hearing aids. It would also help to explain that it doesn’t add cost to the product.             Also want to mention that we’ve tried hard to get telecoil legislation in Wisconsin. HLAA is working hard on this. It’s not that easy with all the bipartisan bickering. It’s a non issue for the majority unfortunately.  There’s a need for more personal human interest stories in the media.  If only the media was interested. 😕

On Sep 5, 2022, at 11:14 AM, Stephen O. Frazier <hlaanm@...> wrote:



Hi Ginevra - You're absolutely right in your assessment that hearing care providers are a big roadblock in raising awareness and availability of telecoils and loops.  In my opinion they are the biggest one and I don't see that the situation has improved much over the last 20 years.

 

Here's a quote from a 2002 article in Hearing Review:

 

"Unfortunately, a recent survey showed that less than 50% of all hearing aid dispensers even mentioned the possibility of a telecoil to their clients. Dispensers cannot, of course, require that their clients include a telecoil in their hearing aids, but people can be given enough information so that they can make an informed choice. Many people would be more than willing to accept the need for a slightly larger hearing aid if the potential benefits of a telecoil were explained to them."

 

I believe that, since the advent of Bluetooth the percentage could even be smaller and, in reaction to looping advocacy, some providers go a step further and try to discourage clients from having the technology included in their HAs. 

 

They're often ignored and violated but state regulations mandating telecoil counseling prior to the dispensing of hearing aids help.  Only a handful of states have such regulations - many as a result of HLAA chapter advocacy - and that's what's needed elsewhere to overcome what is sometimes the outright refusal of some providers to provide such counseling. 

 

Members of this and other HLAA lists and their local chapters are the logical leaders of such efforts in any state that does not have such a requirement.  I believe it's way past time for HLAA chapters to step up and take action on this issue as we did here in NM and others have done in IN,UT, RI, DE etc.

 

Stephen O. Frazier, Hearing Loss Support Specialist

 

   

                 

                               Please support the

   GET IN THE HEARING LOOP

                               campaign of the

  Hearing Loss Association of America

 

 

 

            

 

              

 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Ginevra Ralph" <GRalph@...>
To: HLAAGITHL@...
Subject: Re: [HLAAGITHL] HLAA Not Promoting Telecoil & Hearing Loops #Advocacy #GITHL-Toolkit #hearingloop
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:03:28 -0700

Clearly one roadblock continues to be hearing specialists – maybe we could picket their conventions…

Seriously though, do you have a relationship with your own provider that you could ask some probing questions such as these:

• ·        Do you tell all your clients about telecoils?
• ·        Do you include telecoil as a default in new devices or does the client have to request it?
• ·        Do they need to request Bluetooth or is it automatic?
• ·        How many looped sites in our area would it take for our local specialists to stop saying “nothing’s looped”?
• ·        When do you activate a telecoil in a new pair of hearing aids and do you teach the client how to use it in a looped exam space? [We have had customers show up with telecoils but they can’t use the program!!]

If everyone in a chapter asked their provider questions like this, it can provide both some local advocacy strategies and collective ones if you share the answers with all of us on your websites. [Do you suppose the answers swould be different in the UK compared to the US!?!]

--
Ginevra Ralph
The Shedd Institute, Eugene OR

On Sep 5, 2022, at 11:14 AM, Stephen O. Frazier <hlaanm@...> wrote:



Hi Ginevra - You're absolutely right in your assessment that hearing care providers are a big roadblock in raising awareness and availability of telecoils and loops.  In my opinion they are the biggest one and I don't see that the situation has improved much over the last 20 years.

 

Here's a quote from a 2002 article in Hearing Review:

 

"Unfortunately, a recent survey showed that less than 50% of all hearing aid dispensers even mentioned the possibility of a telecoil to their clients. Dispensers cannot, of course, require that their clients include a telecoil in their hearing aids, but people can be given enough information so that they can make an informed choice. Many people would be more than willing to accept the need for a slightly larger hearing aid if the potential benefits of a telecoil were explained to them."

 

I believe that, since the advent of Bluetooth the percentage could even be smaller and, in reaction to looping advocacy, some providers go a step further and try to discourage clients from having the technology included in their HAs. 

 

They're often ignored and violated but state regulations mandating telecoil counseling prior to the dispensing of hearing aids help.  Only a handful of states have such regulations - many as a result of HLAA chapter advocacy - and that's what's needed elsewhere to overcome what is sometimes the outright refusal of some providers to provide such counseling. 

 

Members of this and other HLAA lists and their local chapters are the logical leaders of such efforts in any state that does not have such a requirement.  I believe it's way past time for HLAA chapters to step up and take action on this issue as we did here in NM and others have done in IN,UT, RI, DE etc.

 

Stephen O. Frazier, Hearing Loss Support Specialist

 

   

                 

                               Please support the

   GET IN THE HEARING LOOP

                               campaign of the

  Hearing Loss Association of America

 

 

 

            

 

              

 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Ginevra Ralph" <GRalph@...>
To: HLAAGITHL@...
Subject: Re: [HLAAGITHL] HLAA Not Promoting Telecoil & Hearing Loops #Advocacy #GITHL-Toolkit #hearingloop
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:03:28 -0700

Clearly one roadblock continues to be hearing specialists – maybe we could picket their conventions…

Seriously though, do you have a relationship with your own provider that you could ask some probing questions such as these:

• ·        Do you tell all your clients about telecoils?
• ·        Do you include telecoil as a default in new devices or does the client have to request it?
• ·        Do they need to request Bluetooth or is it automatic?
• ·        How many looped sites in our area would it take for our local specialists to stop saying “nothing’s looped”?
• ·        When do you activate a telecoil in a new pair of hearing aids and do you teach the client how to use it in a looped exam space? [We have had customers show up with telecoils but they can’t use the program!!]

If everyone in a chapter asked their provider questions like this, it can provide both some local advocacy strategies and collective ones if you share the answers with all of us on your websites. [Do you suppose the answers swould be different in the UK compared to the US!?!]

--
Ginevra Ralph
The Shedd Institute, Eugene OR

Too often audiologists use the chicken and egg argument, that there are too few places that are looped. But what they keep missing is that it’s not necessarily looped rooms that are the reason for telecoils. Public venues are supposed to at least have assistive listening devices. (Whether they are actually available and working is another matter.) ALDs usually come with headphones, sometimes earbuds, and less often neck loops. Headphones generally don’t work well with hearing aids and earbuds not at all. Since many places don’t have neck loops, it’s simple enough to bring your own. I’ve yet to hear of an audiologist who advocates neck loops as a reason to have telecoils.

On Sep 5, 2022, at 12:12 PM, Stephen O. Frazier <hlaanm@...> wrote:

Hi Ginevra - You're absolutely right in your assessment that hearing care providers are a big roadblock in raising awareness and availability of telecoils and loops.  In my opinion they are the biggest one and I don't see that the situation has improved much over the last 20 years.

 

Here's a quote from a 2002 article in Hearing Review:

 

"Unfortunately, a recent survey showed that less than 50% of all hearing aid dispensers even mentioned the possibility of a telecoil to their clients. Dispensers cannot, of course, require that their clients include a telecoil in their hearing aids, but people can be given enough information so that they can make an informed choice. Many people would be more than willing to accept the need for a slightly larger hearing aid if the potential benefits of a telecoil were explained to them."

 

I believe that, since the advent of Bluetooth the percentage could even be smaller and, in reaction to looping advocacy, some providers go a step further and try to discourage clients from having the technology included in their HAs. 

 

They're often ignored and violated but state regulations mandating telecoil counseling prior to the dispensing of hearing aids help.  Only a handful of states have such regulations - many as a result of HLAA chapter advocacy - and that's what's needed elsewhere to overcome what is sometimes the outright refusal of some providers to provide such counseling. 

 

Members of this and other HLAA lists and their local chapters are the logical leaders of such efforts in any state that does not have such a requirement.  I believe it's way past time for HLAA chapters to step up and take action on this issue as we did here in NM and others have done in IN,UT, RI, DE etc.

 

Stephen O. Frazier, Hearing Loss Support Specialist

 

   

                 

                               Please support the

   GET IN THE HEARING LOOP

                               campaign of the

  Hearing Loss Association of America

 

 

 

            

 

              

 

---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Ginevra Ralph" <GRalph@...>
To: HLAAGITHL@...
Subject: Re: [HLAAGITHL] HLAA Not Promoting Telecoil & Hearing Loops #Advocacy #GITHL-Toolkit #hearingloop
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:03:28 -0700

Clearly one roadblock continues to be hearing specialists – maybe we could picket their conventions…

Seriously though, do you have a relationship with your own provider that you could ask some probing questions such as these:

• ·        Do you tell all your clients about telecoils?
• ·        Do you include telecoil as a default in new devices or does the client have to request it?
• ·        Do they need to request Bluetooth or is it automatic?
• ·        How many looped sites in our area would it take for our local specialists to stop saying “nothing’s looped”?
• ·        When do you activate a telecoil in a new pair of hearing aids and do you teach the client how to use it in a looped exam space? [We have had customers show up with telecoils but they can’t use the program!!]

If everyone in a chapter asked their provider questions like this, it can provide both some local advocacy strategies and collective ones if you share the answers with all of us on your websites. [Do you suppose the answers swould be different in the UK compared to the US!?!]

--
Ginevra Ralph
The Shedd Institute, Eugene OR

Clearly one roadblock continues to be hearing specialists – maybe we could picket their conventions…

Seriously though, do you have a relationship with your own provider that you could ask some probing questions such as these:

• ·        Do you tell all your clients about telecoils?
• ·        Do you include telecoil as a default in new devices or does the client have to request it?
• ·        Do they need to request Bluetooth or is it automatic?
• ·        How many looped sites in our area would it take for our local specialists to stop saying “nothing’s looped”?
• ·        When do you activate a telecoil in a new pair of hearing aids and do you teach the client how to use it in a looped exam space? [We have had customers show up with telecoils but they can’t use the program!!]

If everyone in a chapter asked their provider questions like this, it can provide both some local advocacy strategies and collective ones if you share the answers with all of us on your websites. [Do you suppose the answers swould be different in the UK compared to the US!?!]

--
Ginevra Ralph
The Shedd Institute, Eugene OR

On Aug 6, 2022, at 11:45 AM, Carol in Boston <carolagate34@...> wrote:

I just want to point out that preferences probably depend on the quality. ASR got a bad name because it was so often wrong. It has improved enormously. If anyone uses ASR with their Innocaption app you know how good it can be. CART is only as good as the provider, but it can never be as fast. The variation among CART providers varies just as the variation among ASR providers vary. But if you use a good ASR provider you know what you are getting. If you know your CART provider, you also so. But in most situations you ask for CART and have no way of knowing how good the provider will be.

So ASR is less of a gamble and it has the plus of speed. 

On Aug 6, 2022, at 11:32 AM, Alan Katsura, Moderator, CA Diablo Valley Chapter <akatsura@...> wrote:

After seeing Ed's post, I think I understand what "final-version" captioning is. It is verbatim but in small phrases. I can see where it may be more accurate and possibly easier to read since there is less likelihood of having to reread the captioner's corrections. Since normally there is a latency between the speaker/video and captions, accuracy is more important than speed.
--
Alan Katsura
akatsura@...
Moderator HLAA Tech Group

On Aug 6, 2022, at 11:32 AM, Alan Katsura, Moderator, CA Diablo Valley Chapter <akatsura@...> wrote:

After seeing Ed's post, I think I understand what "final-version" captioning is. It is verbatim but in small phrases. I can see where it may be more accurate and possibly easier to read since there is less likelihood of having to reread the captioner's corrections. Since normally there is a latency between the speaker/video and captions, accuracy is more important than speed.
--
Alan Katsura
akatsura@...
Moderator HLAA Tech Group

On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 1:07 PM, Carol in Boston

<carolagate34@...> wrote:

I prefer real time. I can hear, but miss a lot of words or phrases. Unless the captions are as close to the spoken word as possible they do me no good. The ASR has improved greatly during this past year, so accuracy hasn’t been a problem. Delay is always a problem.

Thanks for asking.

Carol 

On Aug 5, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Sara Oser, President, HLAA North Bay of California via hlaagroups.hearingloss.org <saraoser=aol.com@...> wrote:

I received this question from a group setting up a virtual platform to offer courses:

 I would love to ask your opinion about our online platform development. 

 

We are about to implement captioning and the developers have given us two options:

‘Real-time’ captions, which show each word as it’s spoken, or

‘Final version’ captions, which compose a phrase or sentence after the person pauses. It’s more accurate apparently. 

 

What would you recommend? 

Thank you,
Sara Oser

On Aug 5, 2022, at 4:07 PM, Carol in Boston <carolagate34@...> wrote:

I prefer real time. I can hear, but miss a lot of words or phrases. Unless the captions are as close to the spoken word as possible they do me no good. The ASR has improved greatly during this past year, so accuracy hasn’t been a problem. Delay is always a problem.

Thanks for asking.

Carol 

On Aug 5, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Sara Oser, President, HLAA North Bay of California via hlaagroups.hearingloss.org <saraoser=aol.com@...> wrote:

I received this question from a group setting up a virtual platform to offer courses:

 I would love to ask your opinion about our online platform development. 

 

We are about to implement captioning and the developers have given us two options:

‘Real-time’ captions, which show each word as it’s spoken, or

‘Final version’ captions, which compose a phrase or sentence after the person pauses. It’s more accurate apparently. 

 

What would you recommend? 

Thank you,
Sara Oser

On Aug 5, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Sara Oser, President, HLAA North Bay of California via hlaagroups.hearingloss.org <saraoser=aol.com@...> wrote:

I received this question from a group setting up a virtual platform to offer courses:

 I would love to ask your opinion about our online platform development. 

 

We are about to implement captioning and the developers have given us two options:

‘Real-time’ captions, which show each word as it’s spoken, or

‘Final version’ captions, which compose a phrase or sentence after the person pauses. It’s more accurate apparently. 

 

What would you recommend? 

Thank you,
Sara Oser