Date   

Re: [HLAAGITHL] HLAA Not Promoting Telecoil & Hearing Loops #advocacy #githl-toolkit #hearingloop

 

Too often audiologists use the chicken and egg argument, that there are too few places that are looped. But what they keep missing is that it’s not necessarily looped rooms that are the reason for telecoils. Public venues are supposed to at least have assistive listening devices. (Whether they are actually available and working is another matter.) ALDs usually come with headphones, sometimes earbuds, and less often neck loops. Headphones generally don’t work well with hearing aids and earbuds not at all. Since many places don’t have neck loops, it’s simple enough to bring your own. I’ve yet to hear of an audiologist who advocates neck loops as a reason to have telecoils.

Carol Agate 

On Sep 5, 2022, at 12:12 PM, Stephen O. Frazier <hlaanm@...> wrote:

Hi Ginevra - You're absolutely right in your assessment that hearing care providers are a big roadblock in raising awareness and availability of telecoils and loops.  In my opinion they are the biggest one and I don't see that the situation has improved much over the last 20 years.
 
Here's a quote from a 2002 article in Hearing Review:
 
"Unfortunately, a recent survey showed that less than 50% of all hearing aid dispensers even mentioned the possibility of a telecoil to their clients. Dispensers cannot, of course, require that their clients include a telecoil in their hearing aids, but people can be given enough information so that they can make an informed choice. Many people would be more than willing to accept the need for a slightly larger hearing aid if the potential benefits of a telecoil were explained to them."
 
I believe that, since the advent of Bluetooth the percentage could even be smaller and, in reaction to looping advocacy, some providers go a step further and try to discourage clients from having the technology included in their HAs. 
 
They're often ignored and violated but state regulations mandating telecoil counseling prior to the dispensing of hearing aids help.  Only a handful of states have such regulations - many as a result of HLAA chapter advocacy - and that's what's needed elsewhere to overcome what is sometimes the outright refusal of some providers to provide such counseling. 
 
Members of this and other HLAA lists and their local chapters are the logical leaders of such efforts in any state that does not have such a requirement.  I believe it's way past time for HLAA chapters to step up and take action on this issue as we did here in NM and others have done in IN,UT, RI, DE etc.
 
Stephen O. Frazier, Hearing Loss Support Specialist
 
   
                 
                               Please support the
   GET IN THE HEARING LOOP
                               campaign of the
  Hearing Loss Association of America
 
 

 
            
 
              
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Ginevra Ralph" <GRalph@...>
To: HLAAGITHL@...
Subject: Re: [HLAAGITHL] HLAA Not Promoting Telecoil & Hearing Loops #Advocacy #GITHL-Toolkit #hearingloop
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:03:28 -0700


Clearly one roadblock continues to be hearing specialists – maybe we could picket their conventions…
Seriously though, do you have a relationship with your own provider that you could ask some probing questions such as these:
  • ·        Do you tell all your clients about telecoils?
  • ·        Do you include telecoil as a default in new devices or does the client have to request it?
  • ·        Do they need to request Bluetooth or is it automatic?
  • ·        How many looped sites in our area would it take for our local specialists to stop saying “nothing’s looped”?
  • ·        When do you activate a telecoil in a new pair of hearing aids and do you teach the client how to use it in a looped exam space? [We have had customers show up with telecoils but they can’t use the program!!]
If everyone in a chapter asked their provider questions like this, it can provide both some local advocacy strategies and collective ones if you share the answers with all of us on your websites. [Do you suppose the answers swould be different in the UK compared to the US!?!]

--
Ginevra Ralph
The Shedd Institute, Eugene OR



Re: [HLAAGITHL] HLAA Not Promoting Telecoil & Hearing Loops #advocacy #githl-toolkit #hearingloop

Stephen O. Frazier
 

Hi Ginevra - You're absolutely right in your assessment that hearing care providers are a big roadblock in raising awareness and availability of telecoils and loops.  In my opinion they are the biggest one and I don't see that the situation has improved much over the last 20 years.
 
Here's a quote from a 2002 article in Hearing Review:
 
"Unfortunately, a recent survey showed that less than 50% of all hearing aid dispensers even mentioned the possibility of a telecoil to their clients. Dispensers cannot, of course, require that their clients include a telecoil in their hearing aids, but people can be given enough information so that they can make an informed choice. Many people would be more than willing to accept the need for a slightly larger hearing aid if the potential benefits of a telecoil were explained to them."
 
I believe that, since the advent of Bluetooth the percentage could even be smaller and, in reaction to looping advocacy, some providers go a step further and try to discourage clients from having the technology included in their HAs. 
 
They're often ignored and violated but state regulations mandating telecoil counseling prior to the dispensing of hearing aids help.  Only a handful of states have such regulations - many as a result of HLAA chapter advocacy - and that's what's needed elsewhere to overcome what is sometimes the outright refusal of some providers to provide such counseling. 
 
Members of this and other HLAA lists and their local chapters are the logical leaders of such efforts in any state that does not have such a requirement.  I believe it's way past time for HLAA chapters to step up and take action on this issue as we did here in NM and others have done in IN,UT, RI, DE etc.
 
Stephen O. Frazier, Hearing Loss Support Specialist
 
   
                 
                               Please support the
   GET IN THE HEARING LOOP
                               campaign of the
  Hearing Loss Association of America
 
 

 
            
 
              
 


---------- Original Message ----------
From: "Ginevra Ralph" <GRalph@...>
To: HLAAGITHL@...
Subject: Re: [HLAAGITHL] HLAA Not Promoting Telecoil & Hearing Loops #Advocacy #GITHL-Toolkit #hearingloop
Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 08:03:28 -0700

Clearly one roadblock continues to be hearing specialists – maybe we could picket their conventions…

Seriously though, do you have a relationship with your own provider that you could ask some probing questions such as these:

  • ·        Do you tell all your clients about telecoils?
  • ·        Do you include telecoil as a default in new devices or does the client have to request it?
  • ·        Do they need to request Bluetooth or is it automatic?
  • ·        How many looped sites in our area would it take for our local specialists to stop saying “nothing’s looped”?
  • ·        When do you activate a telecoil in a new pair of hearing aids and do you teach the client how to use it in a looped exam space? [We have had customers show up with telecoils but they can’t use the program!!]

If everyone in a chapter asked their provider questions like this, it can provide both some local advocacy strategies and collective ones if you share the answers with all of us on your websites. [Do you suppose the answers swould be different in the UK compared to the US!?!]

--
Ginevra Ralph
The Shedd Institute, Eugene OR


The Whats and Whys of Hearing Tests #Announcement

Sara Oser, President, HLAA North Bay of California
 

Thursday September 8, 4:00 pm Pacific Time: Colleen Polite Au.D. presents at Chapter Meeting (Zoom) The What and Why of Audiological Evaluations. Colleen Polite is on the team of the UCSF Douglas Grant Cochlear Implant Center.* She evaluates patients for cochlear implant candidacy and after implantation works with patients over time to get the best hearing results with the technology. Bring your audiograms. What kind of tests do audiologists do and why? How are the tests related to the audiogram?

*The UCSF Douglas Grant Cochlear Implant Center has been involved in developing and implanting cochlear implant systems for more than 35 years. Our team includes experienced audiologists, surgeons, psychologists and other experts, who are dedicated to providing the most advanced technology and highest-quality care. Each year, we evaluate and treat thousands of adults and children. Our services include evaluation, counseling, surgery, device programming and testing, and rehabilitation.

Register: https://us02web.zoom.us/meeting/register/tZIscOitrzssHt2QioB7ywfBkNISrQZ3DvQw

Information: 415-710-7281


Re: Final-version captioning #poll-notice

 

Edited might be the wrong word. Real time guesses each utterance as it is spoken. Final version is looking at the last few seconds of utterances which give it context. The extra context means it can guess better and will fix some words. Last few seconds is actually just the sound between pauses in speech.


Re: Final-version captioning #poll-notice

Tony Ferack
 

I haven't yet voted but does "Final Version" captions mean the raw captions from a CART provider that have been edited?


On Sat, Aug 6, 2022 at 11:38 AM Alan Katsura, Moderator, CA Diablo Valley Chapter <akatsura@...> wrote:

A new poll has been created:

Has anyone experienced "final-version" captions? Read the message titled "Captioning question" #captions

1. No - never heard of it
2. No - heard of it
3. Yes - positive experience
4. Yes - negative experience

Click Here To Vote

Do not reply to this message to vote in the poll. You can vote in polls only through the group's website.


--
Alan Katsura
akatsura@...
Moderator HLAA Tech Group


Re: Captioning question #Captioning

Arlene Romoff, NJ
 

Yes - I agree with this totally.
That has been my experience as well.

Arlene

On Aug 6, 2022, at 11:45 AM, Carol in Boston <carolagate34@...> wrote:

I just want to point out that preferences probably depend on the quality. ASR got a bad name because it was so often wrong. It has improved enormously. If anyone uses ASR with their Innocaption app you know how good it can be. CART is only as good as the provider, but it can never be as fast. The variation among CART providers varies just as the variation among ASR providers vary. But if you use a good ASR provider you know what you are getting. If you know your CART provider, you also so. But in most situations you ask for CART and have no way of knowing how good the provider will be.

So ASR is less of a gamble and it has the plus of speed. 

On Aug 6, 2022, at 11:32 AM, Alan Katsura, Moderator, CA Diablo Valley Chapter <akatsura@...> wrote:

After seeing Ed's post, I think I understand what "final-version" captioning is. It is verbatim but in small phrases. I can see where it may be more accurate and possibly easier to read since there is less likelihood of having to reread the captioner's corrections. Since normally there is a latency between the speaker/video and captions, accuracy is more important than speed.
--
Alan Katsura
akatsura@...
Moderator HLAA Tech Group


Re: Captioning question #Captioning

 

I just want to point out that preferences probably depend on the quality. ASR got a bad name because it was so often wrong. It has improved enormously. If anyone uses ASR with their Innocaption app you know how good it can be. CART is only as good as the provider, but it can never be as fast. The variation among CART providers varies just as the variation among ASR providers vary. But if you use a good ASR provider you know what you are getting. If you know your CART provider, you also so. But in most situations you ask for CART and have no way of knowing how good the provider will be.

So ASR is less of a gamble and it has the plus of speed. 

On Aug 6, 2022, at 11:32 AM, Alan Katsura, Moderator, CA Diablo Valley Chapter <akatsura@...> wrote:

After seeing Ed's post, I think I understand what "final-version" captioning is. It is verbatim but in small phrases. I can see where it may be more accurate and possibly easier to read since there is less likelihood of having to reread the captioner's corrections. Since normally there is a latency between the speaker/video and captions, accuracy is more important than speed.
--
Alan Katsura
akatsura@...
Moderator HLAA Tech Group


Final-version captioning #poll-notice

Alan Katsura, Moderator, CA Diablo Valley Chapter
 

Has anyone experienced "final-version" captions? Read the message titled "Captioning question" #captions

Results


Re: Captioning question #Captioning

Alan Katsura, Moderator, CA Diablo Valley Chapter
 
Edited

After seeing Ed's post, I think I understand what "final-version" captioning is. It is verbatim but in small phrases. I can see where it may be more accurate and possibly easier to read since there is less likelihood of having to reread the captioner's corrections. Since normally there is a latency between the speaker/video and captions, accuracy is more important than speed. Does anyone use "final-version" captioning in their meetings? I will post a poll.
--
Alan Katsura
akatsura@...
Moderator HLAA Tech Group


Re: Captioning question #Captioning

 

I prefer final version. My experience is the delay is small enough to let me carry on a conversation. I’ve also seen captioning from Olelo where it is in realtime, but then it backs up and corrects.


Re: Captioning question #Captioning

Alan Katsura, Moderator, CA Diablo Valley Chapter
 

Hi, Sara
I heard of captions that are not verbatim but display the essence of the conversation. I have not seen this in practice. It would be interesting to find a video that uses this method. Most people expect verbatim and may become confused seeing something different. 
--
Alan Katsura
akatsura@...
Moderator HLAA Tech Group


Re: Captioning question #Captioning

Jack Clevenger, AZ
 

All, I prefer real time and allow for the mistakes that usually are minor.  Having to wait for for  That is my take."accurate" captioning really sets me back being at live meetings.

Jack


On Fri, Aug 5, 2022 at 1:07 PM, Carol in Boston
<carolagate34@...> wrote:
I prefer real time. I can hear, but miss a lot of words or phrases. Unless the captions are as close to the spoken word as possible they do me no good. The ASR has improved greatly during this past year, so accuracy hasn’t been a problem. Delay is always a problem.

Thanks for asking.

Carol 

On Aug 5, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Sara Oser, President, HLAA North Bay of California via hlaagroups.hearingloss.org <saraoser=aol.com@...> wrote:

I received this question from a group setting up a virtual platform to offer courses:

 I would love to ask your opinion about our online platform development. 
 
We are about to implement captioning and the developers have given us two options:
‘Real-time’ captions, which show each word as it’s spoken, or
‘Final version’ captions, which compose a phrase or sentence after the person pauses. It’s more accurate apparently. 
 
What would you recommend? 

Thank you,
Sara Oser


Re: Captioning question #Captioning

Mary Jarrett
 

I agree.

Mary Jarrett
MWjarrett@...
(904) 635-6660 cell

On Aug 5, 2022, at 4:07 PM, Carol in Boston <carolagate34@...> wrote:

I prefer real time. I can hear, but miss a lot of words or phrases. Unless the captions are as close to the spoken word as possible they do me no good. The ASR has improved greatly during this past year, so accuracy hasn’t been a problem. Delay is always a problem.

Thanks for asking.

Carol 

On Aug 5, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Sara Oser, President, HLAA North Bay of California via hlaagroups.hearingloss.org <saraoser=aol.com@...> wrote:

I received this question from a group setting up a virtual platform to offer courses:

 I would love to ask your opinion about our online platform development. 
 
We are about to implement captioning and the developers have given us two options:
‘Real-time’ captions, which show each word as it’s spoken, or
‘Final version’ captions, which compose a phrase or sentence after the person pauses. It’s more accurate apparently. 
 
What would you recommend? 

Thank you,
Sara Oser


Re: Captioning question #Captioning

 

I prefer real time. I can hear, but miss a lot of words or phrases. Unless the captions are as close to the spoken word as possible they do me no good. The ASR has improved greatly during this past year, so accuracy hasn’t been a problem. Delay is always a problem.

Thanks for asking.

Carol 

On Aug 5, 2022, at 3:59 PM, Sara Oser, President, HLAA North Bay of California via hlaagroups.hearingloss.org <saraoser=aol.com@...> wrote:

I received this question from a group setting up a virtual platform to offer courses:

 I would love to ask your opinion about our online platform development. 
 
We are about to implement captioning and the developers have given us two options:
‘Real-time’ captions, which show each word as it’s spoken, or
‘Final version’ captions, which compose a phrase or sentence after the person pauses. It’s more accurate apparently. 
 
What would you recommend? 

Thank you,
Sara Oser


Re: Portable Telecommunication Devices for the Deaf (TDD)

Sara Oser, President, HLAA North Bay of California
 

Thanks so much Cherie. That's useful information.
Sara Oser


Captioning question #Captioning

Sara Oser, President, HLAA North Bay of California
 

I received this question from a group setting up a virtual platform to offer courses:

 I would love to ask your opinion about our online platform development. 
 
We are about to implement captioning and the developers have given us two options:
‘Real-time’ captions, which show each word as it’s spoken, or
‘Final version’ captions, which compose a phrase or sentence after the person pauses. It’s more accurate apparently. 
 
What would you recommend? 

Thank you,
Sara Oser


Re: Portable Telecommunication Devices for the Deaf (TDD)

John Woodgate
 

Portable loop systems are quite a powerful advertisement for hearing loops, since they can be demonstrated at very little cost.  Contacta have made a rather #overkill' example: I understand that it is about USD1000. while the manufacturing cost structure of electronic equipment these days is very strange (the electronic parts cost far less than the plastic box they come in), it would be quite easy to make a similar but slightly simpler system for a significantly lower end-user price.

======================================================================================
Best wishes John Woodgate OOO-Own Opinions Only
www.woodjohn.uk
Rayleigh, Essex UK
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit



On 2022-08-04 19:51, Cheri Perazzoli WA wrote:

Hi Sara, 
In Washington state, we are very fortunate to have a hearing loop program through our state ODHH office. 
Assistive Communication Technology (ACT) Program | DSHS (wa.gov)

Washington state residents can request the Contacta portable loop system to be set up for meetings. 
PortableRoomLoopKit_productsheet-1.pdf (contactainc.com)


From the ODHH website:
We also have a Portable Room Loop Kit that can be installed in smaller meetings or conferences to provide people with a hearing loss that wear hearing aids or cochlear implants with a t-coil switch to amplify audio sounds in the room for better hearing.  Individuals who do not wear hearing aids and have a medium to mild hearing loss can wear headphones with a receiver and receive good audio amplification.  

Head board


Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: Portable Telecommunication Devices for the Deaf (TDD)

Cheri Perazzoli WA
 

Hi Sara, 
In Washington state, we are very fortunate to have a hearing loop program through our state ODHH office. 
Assistive Communication Technology (ACT) Program | DSHS (wa.gov)

Washington state residents can request the Contacta portable loop system to be set up for meetings. 
PortableRoomLoopKit_productsheet-1.pdf (contactainc.com)


From the ODHH website:
We also have a Portable Room Loop Kit that can be installed in smaller meetings or conferences to provide people with a hearing loss that wear hearing aids or cochlear implants with a t-coil switch to amplify audio sounds in the room for better hearing.  Individuals who do not wear hearing aids and have a medium to mild hearing loss can wear headphones with a receiver and receive good audio amplification.  

Head board


Re: Portable Telecommunication Devices for the Deaf (TDD)

Sara Oser, President, HLAA North Bay of California
 

Hi Peggy,
Thanks so much for that suggestion. I didn't know about the Univox CLS-1. Sounds like a good and economical solution for looping a room.
Sara Oser


Re: Portable Telecommunication Devices for the Deaf (TDD)

Peggy Bell, FL
 

The Univox CLS-1 kit includes a loop driver that will work with 100’ of copper looping coil that can be temporarily ‘installed” on top of carpet or other flooring. The entire kit plus a few loop listeners retails for under $1k.

Beauty of the CLS-1 is that you can output the audio to two loops - the room loop and another looped item - seat cushion or floor mat. I’ve set this system up in less than 30 minutes in a variety of spaces…call or text if you have any questions. 516-697-0067.

Peggy Bell
Audio Directions

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